2. Freedom from self-imposed limits for inner peace | "The Untethered Soul" by Michael A. Singer

Shar:
Andrew, I'm so, so excited to be speaking with you today. For anyone who is listening, Andrew Moss on the call today is a good friend of mine. I have met Andrew in a different life, from a different career. We've both been on our own career paths and we've definitely kept in touch. Andrew Moss is a coach, he's an entrepreneur, he is... marching to the beat of his own drum, I would say, is kind of like the perfect thing that comes to mind as I think of you. But I would love for you to introduce yourself, Andrew, and share what you do in this world.

Andrew Moss:
Sure, well, thanks for having me, Sharif. Great to be here, great to reconnect in our new lives. Well, what am I up to? Well, I think I'm up to the same thing I've always been, which is trying to figure out life in a way that feels aligned and true for myself, and then kind of taking what I learned doing that and sharing it with other people who are interested in finding the same. themselves. So I've done that, you know, I started my career working with athletes, and then I progressed to working with other coaches and helping develop other coaches. And then, you know, now it's more sort of a general life coaching, working with students, working with, you know, entrepreneurs, working with people who are trying to find, you know, a way to kind of progress through life in a way that feels more true to themselves, aligned. purposeful, but kind of doing it, as you said, to the beat of their own drummer, as opposed to somebody else's drum, which I think these days with all the sort of energy we're feeling in the world, I think the more we can do to empower people to do that, the better chance we have to emerge from this.

Shar:
Yeah, and thank you so much for sharing that. How can people find you, Andrew?

Andrew Moss:
Well, I have a website, coachandrewmoss.com. It's probably the best place. I'm not sure if we're gonna talk about it today, but my coaching practice is gonna take a one-year hiatus at the end of this month of July, 2023, because I'm taking a year to go sailing, which is sort of a life dream of mine. So by the time you go to the website, you might see a gone sailing sign on the front, on the homepage.

Shar:
Yeah.

Andrew Moss:
But I'll be back at some point. And if people are interested in following along, my adventure, there'll be links to do so.

Shar:
Yeah, I love that. Not gone fishing, but gone sailing.

Andrew Moss:
No, gone

Shar:
How funny.

Andrew Moss:
sailing,

Shar:
Yeah,

Andrew Moss:
yeah.

Shar:
I love that. And I don't know if you were counting, but Andrew, the number of times you talked about aligned and true,

Andrew Moss:
Hmm.

Shar:
those really popped up for me. And I just thought it was so relevant because the book that you suggested, like right away, you asked me, what's the criteria? And you just said, listen, there's a book. This is the

Andrew Moss:
Mm-hmm.

Shar:
book. And so

Andrew Moss:
Heh.

Shar:
I'm just pulling it up here. It's called, The Untethered Soul, The Journey Beyond Yourself by Michael A. Singer. That was your choice.

Andrew Moss:
It was. Well, they are for me and I think books are interesting in that way. You know, I think books speak to something that, you know, we're looking for. And so for me, I was looking for sort of some guidance on, I know when I don't feel aligned and I know when I'm doing jobs or working with people who I don't feel aligned and connected with. And I was curious, like, what do you do with that? Like, is that... Is that you got to keep changing jobs, you got to keep finding new people, or is there a solution within myself that I need to explore to kind of find a way to live in a world that's always going to have some of that sort of different kind of energy around it? How can I live in a way true and aligned for myself within that reality? And the book spoke to that right away to me. And it's been a really... The other thing is... I like books that are, they seem like complex subjects, but they're written in a way that's very sort of easy to integrate into your life. And I think lots of great theoretical models for things out there, but integrating it into your day-to-day life, it's kind of where the rubber hits the road, right? And so that book for me gave me some tools that I could use right away and it made a huge difference.

Shar:
Yeah, I can't wait to actually dive into the integration and the tools component of it. But there was something that you said that was very interesting about, I mean, you're currently working with students and it sounds like this feeling of misalignment happened a few times before you reached for this book. And so my question is, when was the first time that you reached for this book and read it and did you do it multiple times throughout your life?

Andrew Moss:
Yeah, I think I read the book for the first time probably 11 or 12 years ago, if I'm timing wise, getting it right. So that would have been trying to think when we met somewhere in that time frame. I think I had already read the book when we

Shar:
Right.

Andrew Moss:
first met. And I was, yeah, I was looking for the next opportunity. So I had left sports coaching, which I really had felt like had run its course. I wasn't feeling alignment anymore to it. not just the energy of it, but the travel and everything else wasn't aligning with what was most important for me. So I was trying to figure out where to next and where do I want to go. And the book actually was really helpful in sort of shifting me away from looking at that external environment as the source of the solution to looking inward for my own solution on how I needed to evolve to... to be better suited for a lot of different kinds of environments. And so not long after we met, I was working with students at that point. And then I continued to work with students after that at the university. And that ended up being one of the places that I felt I could really do show up the way that felt true for me. And perhaps influence students as they were starting out on their professional lives. to notice that for themselves in the decisions that they were making and sort of tune into that. Because that's not a message that most of us get when we're in our twenties, right? Like there's kind of a step-by-step external path that you're supposed to follow that at some point, we run up against what's feeling right for ourselves. And then we kind of go, well, what am I doing? Why am I doing this? And we make big life changes. But I don't think it has to be that dramatic if people are a little bit more tuned into themselves.

Shar:
And that's such a fascinating topic because, and I just want to spend some time there because part of the work that I do is leadership coaching for first time people managers. And they are the people that you're talking about who have kind of decided that they're following the path,

Andrew Moss:
Mm-hmm.

Shar:
whether or not it's by design or

Andrew Moss:
Mm-hmm.

Shar:
not, here's the path, it's presented itself and they're walking along it. And so the question that is immediately popping to mind as a valuable thing for others to learn from is in your life, Andrew, what did misalignment feel like? How did it show up?

Andrew Moss:
Hmm. I think it showed up as a sense of resistance or pressure to be a certain way to fit in to a certain crowd. It felt like I didn't mind, you know, having bosses and having leaders around me who influence, but I was somebody that really responded when people allowed me to feel like Okay, I understand the task and let me feel how I'm inspired to solve this. And when I ran up against kind of a control sort of leadership that, that wasn't interested in what was inspiring to me in terms of finding solutions, that's where I really felt out of alignment. Right. So, um, yeah, I think it was any time that, that the environment was really putting a lot of external, uh, sort of control on doing what felt like inspiration for me and inspiration for other people who were part of my teams. Anytime that wasn't the case was probably the feeling of misalignment. That's most, especially in my professional career. Like when I felt out of alignment, it was because there's a lot of external energy that was being put on decisions and put on what we were trying to create that just didn't feel. aligned at all to where we were coming from. And, you know, there's a variety of reasons for that, I suspect, but that was my reality.

Shar:
It almost sounds like what you were craving for was the space and the environment to do leadership on your own terms.

Andrew Moss:
I think so. Yeah, I mean, I think that not just leadership, I think most things, I enjoy doing them on my own terms, but what not, not against having direction and expectations set by other people. But once I was tasked to do something, I really enjoyed the art of creating things. And anytime that was negatively influenced from other people, I think I struggled.

Shar:
Yeah, I love that you said you called out art because creation is an art. There's

Andrew Moss:
It is.

Shar:
a science to it, sure, but it truly is an art form, isn't it?

Andrew Moss:
Absolutely.

Shar:
Yeah. And creation also calls out for psychological safety because with creation comes its counterpart of you got to be okay if it sucks.

Andrew Moss:
Yeah.

Shar:
You got to be okay if it fails and crashes and burns. That's part of the creative process.

Andrew Moss:
Totally, totally. Yeah, and you know, I've had great, great bosses early in my career that were, that was what they celebrate. They celebrated me going out and finding ways to do something that were different than the way anybody else would tackle the problem. And you know, so I've been, you know, as you use the words, you know, going to the beat of a different drummer, that's been me for a long time in my life, and probably all of my life when I was being true to myself. And I had people along the way that really celebrated that and saw how to utilize that. And then I had other people who it really challenged. And so that was part of my learning process as well is finding people who have their own alignment in place where they're not threatened by people who bring different perspective and different ways to solve problems and who celebrate that.

Shar:
And what it sounds like is that when people are aligned, your alignment resonates with their alignment.

Andrew Moss:
Absolutely. Yeah.

Shar:
Yeah. So let's get into it because it sounds like you were craving something, something was happening in your life. You reached out for this book and you talked to us about some strategies, some integration of

Andrew Moss:
Hmm.

Shar:
tools. What did you do?

Andrew Moss:
Well, I'm going to have to get personal for a bit to explain. Like the major thing that was going on in my life at that point was a divorce, actually. And I had a really good friend who knew me from a time we were kids growing up, who I hadn't seen since high school. Right. And so there's probably a 15 year, 18 year break there. And So the first time he saw me, I was right in the middle of going through this change of my personal life. I had three daughters at the time. And so when he saw me, he was immediately concerned about the state that I was in and sort of the energy that I was showing up with. And he kind of called me out on it and just asked, like, what's going on? Like, this is not this version of you is not the you that I remember you as. which in itself was a really interesting comment. Like there was a difference in how I was showing up. So I was definitely in that out of alignment place. And we talked it through and he asked me a question that really helped shift things, which was like, how do you want your girls to remember you as? And I remember when he said that after saying that he didn't, who I was today wasn't who he remembered me as. And I remembered that version of myself when we were growing up and how sort of carefree and going to the beat of my own drum, all of that was me, the me he knew. And I was thinking, like, that's who I want my girls to not just remember me as, but that's who I want them to be comfortable being in their own lives. And so, you know, the leadership as a parent for me was... How do I want to show up as an example for my daughters? And that needed to be, I knew the moment he asked the question, it needed to be in a way that was aligned to myself and felt true to myself, no matter how different it might have been for other people. And so that began a big shift. And the book actually emerged right after that as a tool to understand. where my behaviors come from, where the behaviors that had let me astray had come from. And I think the most useful thing I recall from the book is just this simple notion that, you know, that we are not our thoughts, we are the person observing our thoughts, which, you know, for anybody that does meditation or anything like that, we know that when we can get a little bit quiet... we actually have the ability to notice the thoughts that are running around in our mind and create some separation from it. And when I started to be able to do that, and that was a process of reading the book, and I remember I had a physical copy of the book and I had an audio copy of the book, and I was like double consuming the book. And I would do it on some long walks every morning. And at this point, I'd moved to to Toronto, I was by myself, I had some space to really do some work on myself. And the book kind of gave me the framework to say, all right, so if that's true, if I'm not all the crazy thoughts that are going through my head, then and I'm observing them, then I kind of have a different relationship with them. And I can be angry at my ex or I could be angry at my old boss, or it can be angry about the events that are unfolding. Or I can see that my thoughts are angry, but I don't have to be angry.

Shar:
Hmm.

Andrew Moss:
And that was a huge shift for me to heal and to repair the relationships that I had that had caused series of events to occur. But it also helped me kind of own them all and my responsibility for them all. So that's the most practical tool in the entire book. I would say is that. If you can learn how to just find space in your day or create space in your day that gives you the ability to sit and notice thoughts, be witness to them, not get caught up in them, be curious about them. Like, wow, that's a crazy thought. Like, where's that coming from? And I actually have a little practice that sort of evolved from the book, which was like... When I noticed that I was having these crazy thoughts when I was walking, I would stop and I would like smile.

Shar:
Hahaha

Andrew Moss:
And I would go, that isn't that interesting? And those were the words that emerged was, isn't that interesting? And I got curious, like, how is it that our thought is feeding us all of this random stuff all the time? And it's so easy to just take it as if it's instructions for the day. But... If you just separate a tiny bit from it, you can go, Oh, wow, that's just that's just some crazy stuff that's coming up. I don't need to do anything about that. I can laugh. I can enjoy the sort of the craziness of it and then just keep on walking. And that became my practice. Like two hour walks were like a series of noticing thoughts that were not helpful and having this fun game with them where I'd let them go. And I just keep on walking. And over time was like, It was almost like if you don't feed them, they don't keep showing up

Shar:
Mmm.

Andrew Moss:
or they show up with less energy and intensity. And so over time, I just became a lot more peaceful, a lot more sort of level. You know, my days didn't have peaks and valleys as much. And then when stuff did come up, it was easy to notice it. It was easy to not get caught up in it. So That was super helpful, especially at that time in my life, but it's to this day, it's the tool that kind of helps me just navigate the day with greater peace and ease.

Shar:
So much to unpack there. And I thank you for calling out the word peace because as soon as you said that you're distancing the thought

Andrew Moss:
Mm-hmm.

Shar:
from the… What was it? You're distancing yourself from the thought. So it's the thought who has the emotion as

Andrew Moss:
Mm-hmm.

Shar:
opposed to you, Andrew, having that emotion. And you're watching the thought. And instantly as you said that, I felt the peace come out of you. as you sort of made that psychological distance, it feels like there's a psychological distance in separating those two things. Now, a lot of the people who may listen to this may not have ever meditated. So thank you for introducing the concept of doing this while you're not necessarily sitting in Zen with your hands on your knees

Andrew Moss:
Yeah.

Shar:
and, you know, like the traditional meditation thing, which can be a challenge for people who've never given it a go before. You've... practice this whilst walking, which is an awesome, awesome way to do this. Can you walk our listeners through just a bit more of the practical elements of it? Do you start? Do you have a ritual? How do you cap it all?

Andrew Moss:
Yeah, yeah, well, it's evolved. So when I when I started the book, you know, as I said, I was kind of studying. The book was my was my mentor as I was walking. So

Shar:
Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Andrew Moss:
I was walking with my earbuds in and thinking, listening and reflecting and all that. But I remember the day clearly where I was walking along and I did my normal routine and I was just had this sense come over me like I'm done with having the noise in my ears. Like I'm done having, it's almost like I wanted to hear myself instead of the author speaking to me. And so the earbuds came out and that's my practice as well now, which is to not have external noise coming in, to really connect to just the surrounding noise, you know, and the environment that I'm in. The practice itself is really about staying in an as empty minded estate as possible and just really enjoying nature and enjoying the environment I'm in. Because that just being in that state allows for when things do emerge that you actually notice them. You know, I think a lot of people, it's hard. A lot of people really struggle with meditation because they think that the practice is about not having thought. But it's actually the opposite. It's about recognizing the thoughts when they come up. And then being able to just let them pass and getting better and better at that. It's not lingering with a thought. So I'd love to tell you there is a secret walking routine, but really, I'm a really practical guy. I get out every morning. I like to do it before it's too busy so that the energy of the environment is as natural as possible. I love to be near the water, which we're blessed, you know. in the city that we live in to be able to do. And just those surroundings are really helpful. Sometimes I'll stop and sit on a rock or in a Muskoka chair or whatever, and just take in the energy of the water, the sounds of nature. Because I think nature is also a great teacher. Like if you just sit and watch birds playing on a windy day or the ducks and the geese. floating around doing their thing, or just even watch the lake as sort of the day is unfolding. It's hard not to sort of just get into a very quiet and peaceful state. And that tends to encourage thought to emerge that is like for me, what I've noticed is now I get helpful thoughts showing up much more than unhelpful thoughts. So if I'm looking to make a decision or get some guidance, That's the place I go to, to ask for some guidance. And you know where it comes from? Who knows, right? You can have... people have their own beliefs on where it comes from. I just know that it's coming through me from a source that is not encumbered by my own thinking and, you know, messy thoughts. And so yeah, like I... well, I love that you've called that out because I do think a lot of people get... stuck on the idea that they have to meditate a certain way or follow certain practices. Definitely my experience has been it's more important that you have regularity, that you find an activity that you enjoy doing. Like I used to be a swimmer and I know a lot of swimmers when their heads in the water, they

Shar:
Mm-hmm.

Andrew Moss:
find great peace and great quiet because of the environment. So I think it's different for everybody, but it's more the practice. I think, you know, all of these traditions, they use the word practice. because it's like there's a repetitiveness and a learning that happens through the consistency of doing it over and over again. That's more important than how you do it in my mind.

Shar:
want to know about the birds and the nature. Because you called it out. I pictured the birds dancing in the wind and I pictured the water telling you a story and you said so clearly that there are lessons in nature. What's a lesson recently that you have picked up on that you'd like to share?

Andrew Moss:
Mm-hmm. Well, yeah, I have these funny thoughts that show up when I'm sitting in nature. I remember, I think it was last week, I was down at the lake and sitting on a rock and there was a decent wind that morning and it was coming towards the shore. And so, if I looked straight in front of me, I could see all these waves coming towards the shore that were breaking right in front of where I was. And then if I look to the right or look to the left, like as far as I could see, There were waves coming on the shore and there was waves coming on the shore the other direction. And I remember thinking, wow, like I'm having this experience of life right now that is kind of coming at me. And I'm getting this tiny, tiny sliver of what's actually going on all around. Right. And it's like, how interesting is that? That like, we assume everybody sees things the same way we do. We assume everybody's... having the same experience of life that we do. But for some reason on that morning, I had this sort of thought that, well, maybe the waves are just like, it's just like, this is a, it's a representation that life is happening all around the planet right now, to people with all kinds of different realities going on. And it might be different the way that it's received by anybody depending on where they're at. And... If I was 10 steps down the beach, I might be feeling a different experience than I am with where I am now. So, it's funny the way my mind is working these days, because I'm looking at nature as really a representation of something much, like something that's really full of intelligence. Like even the birds, when I watch the birds as they, because what they'll do on the lake is, you know, from the shore is they'll fly. against the wind, and then they'll do this big swoop and then just like go for a ride and enjoy the ride downwind. And then they'll circle around and you can tell like it's playful. Like there's no purpose to it other than somehow using their talent and dealing with the environment in a way that just seems playful. And even that feels something we should be paying attention to.

Shar:
Yeah, yeah. I don't know if you've ever gone hang gliding before, but that's, they study the flying patterns of birds and how they catch that air channel.

Andrew Moss:
sir.

Shar:
And

Andrew Moss:
Yeah.

Shar:
there's this like momentum that they know and know how to see and sense. And you just have to sort of tap into that. And you're working way less, but

Andrew Moss:
Exactly.

Shar:
you're rising to great heights.

Andrew Moss:
Yeah, yeah.

Shar:
Yeah.

Andrew Moss:
Yeah. And I, you know, I think what I've, what I've taken from all that is that there's an intelligence outside of us

Shar:
Yeah.

Andrew Moss:
at play all the time. Like what those birds are doing and the interplay of the birds and the fish and all of the other things, there's all this intelligence. It's an intelligence that we might not understand as humans.

Shar:
Yeah.

Andrew Moss:
But it's at play all the time. And I just kind of trust that that's part of what, when we ask for some guidance and when we get quiet, that we actually can access something that's out there

Shar:
Yeah.

Andrew Moss:
that we don't really understand. And I don't need to understand it to, because anytime I've done that from a peaceful and quiet place, I've gotten some pretty good guidance that's felt true for me. And... I've learned to trust that.

Shar:
And how interesting it is that you use the word intelligence. There's an intelligence outside of our heads because that is the single one takeaway that you had, which is to trust your thoughts less and to give it less value, right? Because a lot of people live and die by what happens in their brains. My brain told me to do this and I don't question that. And so it almost sounds like You're saying trust your brain a little bit less, trust your thoughts a little bit less, question what they're trying to tell you and maybe have a disassociation or a disconnection to

Andrew Moss:
Hmm.

Shar:
your thoughts. Your thoughts and your behaviors are actually separate.

Andrew Moss:
They are separate, they're quite separate. And you mean our thoughts and our emotions, our emotions tend to be the things that signal when our thoughts are maybe acting up a little crazy, right? Because

Shar:
Yeah.

Andrew Moss:
we feel something that doesn't feel normal.

Shar:
Yeah.

Andrew Moss:
But what we do is absolutely separate from all of that. Now, if we're not trained very well, then thoughts and emotions can lead to actions. with very little separation, right? And, you know, I work with a group of youth in Chicago, inner city kids. And that's the biggest takeaway that they get is that every, you know, feeling and emotion does not require a reaction. And when they started to understand that in their environment, that was about the most empowering thing that you could ever teach them. Because their whole life up until that point was just action reaction. Feel a certain way, do something about it, right? That's why there's guns everywhere. That's why people are getting killed all around them. But they've sort of figured out that, oh, wait a second. If I don't do something about the feeling I'm having in this moment, even if I just give it a tiny bit of space, I can choose what I do next.

Shar:
Yeah.

Andrew Moss:
It's like the most important lesson we could teach anybody. And yet we don't, right? And then we figure it out later in life to try to, you know, figure out why we are the way we are.

Shar:
misalignment comes right back into conversation.

Andrew Moss:
Absolutely. Yeah.

Shar:
They say that it's response versus reaction. I've heard

Andrew Moss:
Exactly.

Shar:
that a lot.

Andrew Moss:
Yeah.

Shar:
That the reaction is a thing that you instinctively want to do, the thing that's going to get you in trouble or that you don't actually believe what you're doing. The response comes after a bit of a break,

Andrew Moss:
Yeah.

Shar:
after some distance.

Andrew Moss:
And it can be just a couple of moments to be honest.

Shar:
Yeah.

Andrew Moss:
Right. And I think, yeah, response to me, to me is just almost like a level of consciousness, right? Reaction is a low level of consciousness to what I'm about to do. And response is just a little bit higher up, up the scale.

Shar:
Yeah.

Andrew Moss:
And it's just, okay, I'm angry right now. This might be a good time to step away before I decide what to do next.

Shar:
Yeah. And consciousness is a big word in this book, isn't it?

Andrew Moss:
It is. Yeah. I mean, it's really what the book is all about is, I think the way he describes consciousness is that separation from thought. It's the ability to see what we're thinking and to see what we're feeling and to unpack it as if we're separate from ourselves. And I think it's a fascinating thing to learn how to do like it's and I'm a You probably tell like a fairly curious person. So I

Shar:
Hehehe

Andrew Moss:
like when somebody says, yeah, like you can learn to be separate from all of this craziness that's going on in your brain and kind of pick and choose what parts you want to use and what parts you want to just let go. That's like such a different message than anybody ever offered me when I was growing up. And so I got super curious about that. I could quickly see how it could help me. feel better, behave better, have a more peaceful, steady life. And that has then benefited other people that I'm around, because that's the version of me that they get to see.

Shar:
Yeah. And so there is one question that I have that keeps an aggier at the back of my head because the things that we're talking about is when we find the time to explore our brains, when we create some emptiness and sort of are open to listening to ourselves and we're walking and creating peace around us. What happens, Andrew, in the moments where you're in the thick of it and the anger is there or that raw emotion is staring you in the face? Is there a practice that you use that you would highly recommend for our listeners?

Andrew Moss:
Well, I think you have to do the first part for the practice to work. So what I mean by that is you have to dedicate some time to developing the awareness. Because I think it's different for everybody is that awareness and that ability to relate to emotions and thoughts in that separate nature that we've been talking about, that requires a bit of a practice. I think once you've done that practice. I mean, what I do is similar to what I said about when I'm on my walks. I will notice when I'm feeling a feeling that is out of alignment with what my desired state is. And so my desired state for every day is a sense of sort of peacefulness and calmness. And the funny thing is what I do now as part of my intention every day is to actually choose the state that I want to be in for the day as an emotional state. And so when I'm traveling, for example, I will be very intentional about being patient as a state for the day because travel tends to put a test to that. And as you know, having traveled overnight, like it requires you to show up a certain way if you want it to be a peaceful and enjoyable and at least neutral experience. So I choose that and then. If I'm confronted with energy or emotion that's very different from that, it is very noticeable. And I will treat it the same way I treat, you know, crazy thought when I'm on my walk, which is like, huh, I'm really curious. Like, where is that coming from? Because the emotion is not gonna... I don't remember the last time I've ever felt the way those words you just use would make somebody feel. I've been around people. Like I remember during the pandemic, you know, going into a coffee shop with my mask on and having an older gentleman just screaming at me because I was one of the conspiracy people behind this

Shar:
Mmm.

Andrew Moss:
pandemic because I was wearing a mask, right?

Shar:
Mm.

Andrew Moss:
And I remember thinking to myself, wow, like, I wonder what's going on with him to have him feel this way and to act this way. That was that's become. the way I respond to energy that's trying to pull me away from the state that I want to be in. It's more curiosity than it is reactionary or judgment or anything like that. But it's a journey to get to that.

Shar:
How interesting is that?

Andrew Moss:
Hmm. Hehehehehehehehe

Shar:
This is amazing. Thank you, Andrew, for getting vulnerable with us and sharing the origin story of what had happened and why it had happened and where you are today. Thank you so much for just taking the time to go to that area. Yeah.

Andrew Moss:
You're welcome. Well, and that's why I think I'm so passionate about working with young people these days is I don't want I don't think it's necessary for people to get to a life changing, you know, period of their life to pay attention to how they're showing up and why they're showing up that way. Like if you can

Shar:
Yeah.

Andrew Moss:
give that to I know you want to work with young people, if we can give those tools to young people, they can avoid a lot of this mishap in their life by making just. better choices that are more aligned to themselves, and being around people that feed them in that way, and learning how to tolerate people who are different than them and show

Shar:
Yeah.

Andrew Moss:
up in different ways. And we need a lot more tolerance, we need a lot more understanding in the leaders of our future, and I think this is a tool that could be really helpful.

Shar:
Yeah, I often think about trajectory. That's what my mind always comes back to is like, if you can just dial back the age and, you know, teach skills at the right time before it breaks you, or it feels like it's about to break you, what does the trajectory of your life potentially look like? And that to me is such a motivating question.

Andrew Moss:
Same here.

Shar:
Yeah, yeah. Amazing chat. So as we wrap up our session for today, Andrew, I often ask our interviewees, this was the book that built you. It came out of you like in a flash

Andrew Moss:
Ha ha

Shar:
when I was talking to you. You said there was only one book. It's got to be this one book.

Andrew Moss:
Yeah.

Shar:
What's another book, Andrew, that you feel has really changed the way that you are to change the way that you act or behave or think or feel, something that's really moved you?

Andrew Moss:
Yeah. And I actually don't know if it's been put into a book format, but so maybe if I could go tiny bit off script.

Shar:
Go, go.

Andrew Moss:
Yeah, there's a there was a podcast that really, which was called the one you feed. So the end, it's really it's a it's a podcast that's based on a simple parable about You know, that I think the story is there's two wolves inside of us, and one is positive and caring and loving and helpful, and the other is dangerous and negative. And the question is, which they're in a battle together, which one wins? And the answer is always the one you feed. And I remember hearing that early in this story that we've been unpacking today and thinking, so the one you feed is the one you give attention to. And I think the things that I give attention to now are the things that help me show up the way I want to show up, be the way I want to be. And I know that this, your podcast is really talking about leadership as well. And I think one of the most important things that we can do as leaders is to know our own selves better and to focus on our own way of showing up. And when we understand what we've talked about today. If I understand for myself that the way I show up at work is based on the way I respond to the thoughts that I'm having and the emotions that I'm feeling. And that sometimes I mess up and I go into reaction. Sometimes I'm able to catch it. If we can give ourselves permission to be that way, then we have to also give permission for other people to be that way. And we can guide them and we can care for them and we can support them. Um, but everybody's doing the best they can with kind of this understanding of where they are on that consciousness scale, like between being a reactionary person to being a peaceful and responsive person. And so the one you feed to me is sort of the title of the book, which is like choose what you want to feed every day. Choose what attention you want to give. to your thoughts, to your emotions, and choose a way to show up in the world that's right for you. And I think if you do that and you learn how to do that for yourself, you're gonna be a positive force and a positive example, as I was challenged to be for my girls. Like that's the example they see from their father today is somebody who's just enjoying life, going along with all the stuff that's going on, but not getting caught up in any of it. And... And if that's the way they live their lives, then I'll be pretty happy.

Shar:
Well, Andrew, my friend, you are the definition of positive force, let me tell

Andrew Moss:
Hahaha

Shar:
you that much. And thank you, thank you for your generosity, thank you for your time and sharing your beautiful, beautiful journey with us today. I super duper appreciate it, it's been amazing.

Andrew Moss:
Well, thanks, Shar. And I appreciate everything about you. So it's great to be back together.

Shar:
Yeah.